A Message From PI Founder, Nicole:

I want to remind you that God created you for a huge purpose, and He WILL use you to build His kingdom! You are meant to shine!

How to know God.

 

A Thought

This topic contains 18 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  AdventureGirl 1 week, 5 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
Author Posts
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

This is just a thought I had while reading posts on other topics…
If God is in control of everything–ie, all deaths, all presidential elections, etc., is he in control of abortion? Murder? Rape? War? Terrorism?

November 10, 2016 at 22:38
theteenfashionista

theteenfashionista

Yep.

November 11, 2016 at 07:51
mimiroland123

mimiroland123

Yes

November 11, 2016 at 08:43
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

Interesting.

November 11, 2016 at 08:58
AdventureGirl

AdventureGirl

No.

It’s complicated though. Within Christianity, there are things the general majority of Christians agree on, such as Jesus being God, accepting Jesus as the perfect sacrifice for sin etc. and then there are other issues that are disagreed upon among Christians.
These are disagreed upon due to differences in opinion on how to interpret scripture, and I suppose on one’s view of God.

If you believe God is in control of everything, this is more in line with the view of Pre-destination and Calvinism (God decided who goes to Heaven, we don’t choose) and disregards free will.

Other denominations of Christianity believe God has created us with the ability to choose. These are my beliefs.

From my viewpoint, if you believe God controls everything, you are making him responsible for evil. From scripture, we see this is not true.

(James 1:13; 1 John 1:15)

It also make us basically robots, because apparently God is controlling us.

This disregards quite a bit of scripture; clearly, God is against sin. If everything were happening according to his will, everything would be perfect. But we have freedom–free will–to choose, which is ultimately a good thing, but sometimes people use this in a way that hurts others (abortion, murder etc.).

Consider Adam and Eve; God clearly told them not to eat from a specific tree in the Garden of Eden (his will for them was for them to not eat it) but they went against God’s will and did eat.

Another thing: There would be no point in fighting evil if God were in control of everything. However, we see very clearly in scripture that God tells us to do just that (Ephesians 6:10-13; Ephesians 5:11)

Think about this: If God is controlling everything, we should not be fighting ISIS, we should have let Hitler take over the world and we should sit back and just kind of let things unfold, because, after all, if something is happening, it is God’s will.

Last thing–as I said before in the other thread, I do believe God is ultimately in control. God can work out everything for our good, but this does not mean everything is good, or that everything is God’s will.

As I said, it’s a complicated topic, so if I wasn’t clear on something or if you have more questions please let me know 🙂

November 11, 2016 at 10:08
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

@AdventureGirl
One question: what’s the difference between God being in control of everything and God simply willingly allowing it to happen? Like, if he wasn’t working *through* a murderer, he just allowed the murderer to murder someone and allowed the victim to die–knowing what was happening (I’m assuming), (and then as you said, working it out to be for our good), what’s really the difference there? I mean–I guess that’s kind of the difference, but why is one better than the other?

November 11, 2016 at 10:36
AdventureGirl

AdventureGirl

@Rainbowuni~I see the difference as extremely important.

In your scenario, obviously the murder happens regardless of whether God is in control or whether he just allows it to happen; so from the victim’s standpoint I suppose it doesn’t matter, since the murder happens either way.

However, if you look at the situation in regards to all humanity, it does matter, a lot. The principle that matters is free will; that is what the difference is about. If God is controlling everything, then we don’t have free will.
If he is allowing it to happen, we do.

November 11, 2016 at 10:54
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

Would he ever *not* allow something to happen? Does he ever interfere and cause something,like a murder for example, to not happen?

November 11, 2016 at 11:37
Wolfsmaedchen

Wolfsmaedchen

Well, I believe there is a reason why there are bad things, but I don’t think God deliberately gives them to us because he wants us to suffer.

I mean, we are independent beings with a free will, so bad things have to be possible. We don’t have a free will as long as we don’t do bad things, but when it’s getting too bad, God will intervene. No! The concept of free will is a very radical one. We either get it, and the responsibility for everything we do, or we are controlled and thus not free. So I don’t think that God really intervenes. He may support us and cast our attention to things we have not seen before and that help us, but he does not take action. We are not called to sit at home and pray so God does all the dirty stuff. We are called to go outside and clean up this mess by ourselves!

Control is about being passive and being led, while free will is about having agency. He wouldn’t call us to do good if he was in control. He wouldn’t need to say anything because it would happen anyway.

Our species is a marvelous species, with the possibilty to be both incredibly cruel and incredibly good. And we are that way because he was in control when he made us. Maybe he will take control again someday. But that would totally contradict the idea of free will.

November 11, 2016 at 12:21
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

@Wolf
Do you believe in miracles, then? And/or what do you believe about them?
And do you draw hope from your views–because a lot of people say they get a lot of hope from their religion, I just don’t see how that’s really possible with your position.

November 11, 2016 at 17:44
AdventureGirl

AdventureGirl

@Rainbowuni~ Unfortunately I cannot give you a *definite* answer, as I am not God 😛

But here’s what makes sense to me and what I believe. Yes, God does intervene at some times, and not at other times. Why? I personally have no idea 🙂

But really, I suppose because God is omniscient and can see things we can’t.

Your last question was directed at @Wolf, but I’ll take a stab at answering it too 🙂

I definitely believe in miracles. As I said before, I believe God is ultimately in control. First, God created the world, which makes him beyond time, physical laws and the like.

It also makes him completely understanding of the human psyche and brain (because he created it after all) so if you’re asking about miracles in the face of, say, someone who is about to be murdered, it could absolutely happen.
I don’t see why this would have to conflict with free will, because God could draw something to the murderer’s attention, or manipulate something else in the physical world order to stop it. He wouldn’t have to turn a person into a robot.

November 11, 2016 at 20:21
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

@AdventureGirl
Wouldn’t interfering in any way affect free will, though? Like, even just distracting someone, seems like it would interfere with free will a little bit.
It wouldn’t turn them into a robot, sure, but it would still mean they aren’t 100% autonomous…right?

November 12, 2016 at 10:20
AdventureGirl

AdventureGirl

Hmmm well I distract people intentionally sometimes 😛 😀

November 12, 2016 at 18:27
AdventureGirl

AdventureGirl

I think free will is (surprise!) complex. No one has complete control over their life, no matter how smart, athletic or whatever they are.

For instance, we don’t choose where we’re born, we don’t choose our families or our nationalities. We don’t get to choose when we die (generally), when we’re born, birth defects, health problems, the weather…but that doesn’t mean we don’t have free will, it just means we don’t control everything.

Does that answer your question?

November 12, 2016 at 18:35
rainbowuni

rainbowuni

I guess that makes sense. But I mean, I’d still say that those are things that interfere with free will. Like, it inhibits people’s decisions by limiting them to certain situations, if that makes sense? So if God is in control of those things, he’s still interfering with it.
Does he influence some people’s lives more than others? Because I feel like being born with a serious birth defect would be a pretty big deal, over someone who wasn’t born with that birth defect. I guess I wanna know, is that fair?

November 12, 2016 at 19:03
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.