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Inspiration

A Commentary on Abortion

Pregnant-Couple

If there is any topic that can quickly divide a group of people, that topic is abortion. We live in a world polarized on this issue. Abortion is a sensitive topic because it deals with the quality and rights of two individual lives—housed, for a time, in the same body.

 

Choices Have Consequences

Pregnancy is the biological consequence of the choice to have sex (except in cases of rape). Every time a couple participates in this action, there is some risk of pregnancy occurring. With knowledge of this risk comes responsibility. Each person is responsible for their choices and the consequences that come with those decisions—and sometimes that consequence is an unwanted pregnancy.

However, just because a pregnancy was neither expected nor wanted does not give the parents a right to determine that child’s future. Though conception may have been accidental, the action that led to the child’s existence was a choice—a choice the baby did not make. By taking away that child’s life, the parents effectively remove his or her right to a life choice in order to fulfill their own. They punish the child for their own decisions.

But is this conceived “being” truly a child? As Christians, we cannot deny that it is. Psalm 139:16 states, “Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.” If a baby is not human at conception, at what point does it become human? At what point did we—as adults—receive the “right” to life choices? And at what point does a baby have a right to a choice? These are the questions we need to ask as Christians living in a conflicted world.

 

Life That God Designed

Many of us are walking through life seeking God’s plan and guidance. We want to know which way to turn: what college to choose, who to marry, what job to take. The lives we live were granted to us the moment we were conceived. We have the opportunity to make choices, experience the world and be individual because God gave us life. God is the Author of Life, which means He dictates when it begins and when it ends.

In Jeremiah 1:5 God says: “I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart…” and in Isaiah 49:1, Isaiah writes: “Before I was born the Lord called me; from my mother’s womb He spoke my name.” God has an interest in the infant members of society because He intentionally creates them using the biological process we previously discussed. Our society thinks that because men and women can choose to have sex, they can choose to eliminate one of the consequences of sex—pregnancy. But children are a gift from God (Psalm 127:3-4). God opens and closes the womb (Is. 66:9 – “Shall I who gives delivery shut the womb?”). While we as humans have the privilege of participating in the creation of a child, we are not in control of that creation. Because of this, no one has the right to take a life that God designed.

 

But What About the Mother?

Unfortunately for the church, there are times when—in defense of the infant—we forget about the mother. Many abortions are driven by fear and lack of resources. Though the pregnancy may have begun as the result of a poor decision, this does not mean we ignore the needs of frightened mothers unsure of their next step. Just as we have compassion for the life of the infant, we must have compassion for the soul of its mother.

It is both foolish and ineffective to condemn a frightened woman for the sin of her choices when she is in dire need of help. While she may be bearing the consequence of a sinful decision, none of us are beyond the reach of God’s redemptive love. The church must rally around these women with the same tenacity it uses when fighting for the unborn. This is in fact the most effective way to protect infants from abortion, because reaching the heart of the mother protects the life of her child.

Unwanted and illegitimate pregnancies have always been a topic of shame in society. One woman bore this shame from a very young age, and likely wore it as a “scarlet letter” for the rest of her life. Her name was Mary.

To the world she lived in, it looked as if Mary had had an illegitimate child (John 8:41). After all, who would believe a woman who says she is bearing “the Son of God”? Mary would have been shamed. She was almost abandoned by her fiancé. There was no crisis pregnancy center for Mary, but her heart trusted in God and the child she bore changed our world.

Mary may not have had the option of an abortion, but she could have abandoned the baby in an attempt to preserve her reputation (abandoning unwanted infants was common in ancient culture). Instead she chose the uncomfortable and painful route—a route that was difficult, but a route that gave life not just to a baby, but to each one of us who puts faith in Jesus Christ.

No woman today is bearing the Son of God, but each child conceived bears the image of God. Abortion takes a form of God’s authority over life and death, deciding that this life—this baby—does not deserve to live. We must fight for these souls who cannot fight for themselves. But just as much, we should be fighting for the hearts of the women who bear those babies, reaching out to them with compassion and understanding, offering alternatives of hope. Abortion cheats the infant of life and cheats the mother of peace. We can stop this by defending both the mother and the child, because God has a future for them both.

 

Image: LightStock

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18 Comments

  1. Project Inspired

    Posted by Precioustime22 on August 16, 2015 at 10:09

    I never understand why people say, “The pregnancy was not planned, we used protection.” When you have sex, you can get pregnant (I know, crazy, right?). Here’s my problem with artificial birth control, God created sex, to “Be fruitful and multiply,” when you use protection to prevent God’s purpose of sex, you are distorting God’s gift and turning it into an event of lustful pleasure. Protection doesn’t allow you to give yourself freely to another human because you fear pregnancy,(which people act like it’s the plague or something. An STD, is a lot worse.) Children are gift from God.

    If you can handle the responsibility of being a parent, don’t have sex. It’s that easy. As far as rape goes, it’s terrible. A very wicked thing. But I would never kill the other victim, hoping it would help me cope and move on. The baby is as much as a victim of rape as the mother is. When a woman becomes pregnant, whether she accepts the responsibility or not, she’s responsible for more than her own life. God calls mothers to be nurturers and to be unconditionally loving to her children, like He is to all of us. I don’t see how aborting a child is being unconditionally loving. I agree with you Phylicia.

    Any questions or comments, feel free to reply.

    • Broken Vessel

      Posted by Broken Vessel on August 18, 2015 at 19:15

      Consenting to sex is not consenting to parenthood (I know, crazy right?).

      Adoption is an alternative to parenthood, not pregnancy. This is something Christian women need to get through their head as they refuse to adopt children because they ”don’t share the same blood”.

      “The baby is as much as a victim of rape as the mother is.”…NOT. AT. ALL. It can’t even think; it doesn’t know it was conceived in rape.

      Referring to pregnancy as a consequence or punishment does not make women want to go through with it.

      Honestly, I probably wouldn’t want to be parent right now, and I wouldn’t want to send the kid into foster care either (pro-lifers are either gonna let it them sit there until they age out of the system, or abuse tf out of them. It’s best not to put them through it). The good the about this is that I have the right to choose. You’re trying to take away someone else’s choice, but what if things were flipped around? What if you lived in a country where abortion after having two kids was mandatory? You wouldn’t like that- someone choosing YOUR future and what to do with YOUR body- would you? Well then, stop trying to do it to someone else.

      Pro-choicers are not trying to encourage women to have more abortions, we are simply trying to end the shame that christian culture places on it.

    • N.E.S.

      Posted by N.E.S. on August 16, 2015 at 21:26

      That is how I feel, but I get looked at like I am a mad woman. That is okay though because the whole world should never agree with a Christian. I agree 100% with you! 👍 I’m not really focused on having a child though because I’m not married and I’m young. I want to get married in 11-13 years. So… I’ll gladly enjoy my time as a child! 😉

  2. Justilean

    Posted by Justilean on August 14, 2015 at 22:14

    I hate reading articles on abortion that, aside from cases of rape, assume that the baby making parties are 16 year olds that fooled around. If a married couple uses birth control and still gets pregnant, they haven’t committed any sins, but clearly the intention was not pregnancy.

    Irrelevant to that, consent can only truly be given under knowing all circumstances concerning a decision. Especially in the southeast USA, sex ed is abstinence based. Teen pregnancy is also rampant (you can see this with basic research or by watching 16 and Pregnant). Coupled with misinformation surrounding birth control, the hoops you need to jump through to get put on it, and the shame surrounding purchasing condoms, of course people aren’t using birth control as often as they should! Providing pregnancy prevention is ultimately abortion prevention, but nevertheless the choice lies with the person carrying the baby.

  3. N.E.S.

    Posted by N.E.S. on August 13, 2015 at 14:32

    1% of abortions is because of rape and 3% of pregnancies a mother’s life and a child’s life is at risk. If you murder God’s child you are just as bad as the rapist especially since the rapist did not kill you. What about the baby’s rights? 60,000,000 babies have been murdered and you are more likely to die having an abortion than giving birth. I guess it is just a matter of location. Society also tells women what to do. We tell them not to prostitute their bodies, to work, to take care of the babies, to dress up nice for things, etc. Why not tell them something for abortion or slaughter? Please do research on a man named Scott Klussendorf… he’s an expert at this. 😄

    • Project Inspired

      Posted by elizey7 on September 6, 2015 at 20:53

      If God’s child is in my fallopian tubes or outside of my uterus, I should just suck it up and deal with it? As in “maybe God doesn’t want me to have anymore children after this one, since my reproductive organs will be damaged after the delivery”?

      • N.E.S.

        Posted by N.E.S. on September 10, 2015 at 12:51

        Yes, you should deal with it. If you are not meant to get pregnant then you will not get pregnant. If you do get pregnant your body consented (like how our body consents to pain, sickness, and EVEN pleasure) and God consented to allow it. You wouldn’t even make that comment if you were murdered, sucked out limb from limb, or pulled out of your mother’s womb limb from limb.

        Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
        John 16:21

    • rainbowuni

      Posted by rainbowuni on August 21, 2015 at 09:46

      “Christians are not pro-choice”
      Have you read some of the other comments on this article?
      http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2003/01/The-Biblical-Basis-Forbeing-Pro-Choice.aspx
      http://jesuswouldbefurious.org/+Believable/ChristianChoice-1.html

      “The man is dependent just like the mother is dependent to fulfill their desires.”
      No, the man is not dependent (as I already explained), but even if you refuse to accept that, the fetus is dependent on the mother to fulfill their desires as well; what gives the fetus the right to do so if neither the man or the woman have the same right?

      “Homosexuality, abortion, and transgenderism never bring forth life.”
      Infertility, be it a genetic condition or caused by age or a specific event in one’s life, also never brings forth life. Therefore, all infertile people are in the wrong and can never be in a biblical relationship, correct?

      “You are guaranteed in most cases to have a horrible life growing up as a kid without a mother and a father”
      Really? In all the people I’ve met without mothers or fathers, I’ve never found this to be explicitly true. But since you are so sure about it, would you care to speculate on a legitimate reason why this is true? (Is it because all kids need a healthy dose of love that can only come from a female parent and a healthy dose of football that can only come from a male parent?)

      “if they knew what homosexuals do”
      So…what is it that homosexuals do, exactly? Do they eat babies?

      “The problem with abortion is that it takes a human life for convenience”
      Not in all cases.

      “and they use terms like “special rights”, “terminate”, “fetus”, and “consent”.”
      “Special rights”–means rights given to a particular group of people that no one else has (i.e. the right to use another person’s body without consent.)
      “Terminate”–means to put an end to. When you terminate a pregnancy, you put an end to the pregnancy.
      “Fetus”–means an unborn child, usually after ~8 weeks gestation.
      “Consent”–means permission or agreement.
      You see, a woman does not get special rights by being allowed to say “no” to a fetus–or anyone or anything else that is dependent on her body, for that matter. However, it is a special right for the fetus to be able to use, i.e. be completely dependent on for life, a woman’s body without her consent, because we don’t give that right to anyone else, ever.
      Even if you want to say that sex is consent (which it’s not, but that’s a different discussion), you would have to agree that rape is therefore not consent–but unless you support a rape victim’s right to choose to “murder” her “baby,” you support giving a fetus special rights.

      “If you do not want someone to do something you are not forcing them.”
      So you don’t want abortion to be illegal?

      “It sounds like the mother has a special right to slaughter her child for convenience”
      See above. Though it sounds like, to me, your problem with abortion is largely do to the fact that the fetus is physically killed in the process (rather than allowed to die on its own without food or oxygen from the mother’s body), correct?

      “The evidence for God is knowing Him, Bible prophecy, and history.”
      I’ve never really understood what people mean by “knowing Him,” but besides that point, there’s quite a few biblical prophecies that were never fulfilled, and history doesn’t exactly correspond with a lot of it, either.

      “You cannot tell me that for Zeus and Allah.”
      You’re right, maybe I can’t say that for Zeus, but as for Allah…
      https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
      http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/347/prophecies-of-quran/
      http://www.godallah.com/evidence.php

      “There are only four differences between a baby in the womb and a baby outside of the womb … degree of dependency”
      Dependency is the important one, here. It is not a woman’s fault that a fetus is dependent on her body for life–it is not her fault it will die if she removes the fetus from its life support. Like I said earlier, it sounds to me like your problem with abortion is largely do to the fact that the fetus is physically killed in the process (rather than allowed to die on its own without the necessary care from the mother’s body). Is that correct?

      “Inside or out of the womb we still depend on things.”
      Yes, the difference is, the living people we depend on are able to consent to caring for us.

      “I am never in favor with abortion in any case.”
      So, not in cases of rape, nor in cases to save the mother’s life, nor in cases where the fetus has a severe abnormality that will kill it anyway (only more slowly and more painfully for both mother and baby)?

      “In some cases babies feel pain, and they fight for their life that is being stripped from them because of the convenience of the mother.”
      So, does it mean anything to you the pain the mother might feel, as they fight for their right to their own body that is being stripped from them for the convenience of the fetus? Or does the mother not matter when a fetus is present?

      “I hate it when people take the child away”
      Just out of curiosity, do you support a person’s right to remove a dependent (be it a spouse or a child or whoever else they may be authorized to do this for) (or in any case a person’s right to be removed) from life support?

      Responding to Scott Klusendorf:
      “Would anyone argue that you could kill a 2-year-old?”
      No, because a 2-year-old is viable and not dependent on an unwilling caretaker. Once again, there’s a misunderstanding here: I don’t want a bunch of dead fetuses, I simply want a woman to have the right to say no to a pregnancy if she chooses–even if a fetus might die because of it.
      In fact, I want to add again: If a 2-year-old needed to be dependent on its mother’s body again, suddenly, would they have a right to do so without the mother’s consent?

    • rainbowuni

      Posted by rainbowuni on August 19, 2015 at 00:49

      “Some athiests are against abortion.”
      Of course, just as some Christians are pro-choice.
      If you want your particular interpretation of a god to be a reason for laws that dictate other people’s lives, then you’re not for separation of church and state–as I could just as easily say “Well, the Flying Spaghetti Monster hates babies, so we should kill all of them because that’s just God’s opinion.” Maybe I’m just misunderstanding your position…but it sounds like you want all laws to correspond with your individual religious beliefs.

      “God hates the sin and loves (John 3:16) and hates the sinner (Psalms 5:5). He can do both.”
      I wasn’t aware of this, so thank you 😀

      “The man is dependant on the women’s body to fufill his pleasure”
      …No. First, there’s many other options for a man who wants pleasure–he doesn’t need to force a woman to give him her vagina.
      “a mother is dependant on the babies body for her pleasure thus removing that child.”
      Second, what makes you think that forcing a woman to be pregnant because the child matters is any different from forcing her to have sex with whatever man wants to have sex with her, because the man matters too? I get what you’re trying to say, but it seems like you have it backwards…

      “Homosexuals cannot have children”
      They can’t have children…at least they’ll never need an abortion, right? (Or is homosexuality worse than abortion?) Why is the inability to have children a determining factor of whether your relationship is valid or not? Are infertile couples in the same spot as homosexual couples, because they’re not able to have children? If not, please explain your reasoning.
      “and there is no such thing as same-sex “marriage.””
      …Care to elaborate further? Because last time I checked, marriage rights had been extended to same-sex couples in several countries, including the US, so there is, indeed, same-sex marriage (though we just call it marriage.).
      “They shouldn’t adopt they just are a counterfeit of a mom and a dad.”
      Oh yeah, I’m sure all the orphan children would rather die in an orphanage instead of having two dads, huh? If you don’t have one mom and one dad, you’re guaranteed a horrible life.

      “Those people who agreed with abortion just confused me with their logic”
      Can you explain what part specifically confused you? I’d like to help you understand, if you want me to.
      “no one is forcing anybody.”
      Well, if you’re in favor of taking away a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy, you are in favor of forcing her to be pregnant against her will.

      “the reason why I believe in God is because the evidence for Him is creation.”
      So, why don’t you believe in Allah or Zeus–either of them could have just as easily been responsible for creation as well, right?

      “If you can’t harm the baby why is okay to kill the baby?”
      Suffering. Torture. Would you rather me kill you, or would you like to be immortal, but spend eternity in pain and agony…say, as Jesus did on the cross?
      Not only that, but I think you’re forgetting something important: the termination of a pregnancy is not the termination of a fetus. The fetus might die as a result, but there’s a difference between “I don’t want to be pregnant” and “I want to murder this baby.”

      “I lost my brother or sister because of a miscarriage”
      I’m very sorry for your loss. I, too, have lost family members (cousins, multiple nieces and/or nephews) to miscarriages, and while I don’t believe I’ll see them after I die, it’s very sad because they were children the family looked forward to having. I’m not saying that abortion isn’t sad–it is sad. However, I have yet to see justification for giving a fetus the right to use a woman’s body without consent, if we don’t give anyone else (for example: her child after it’s born, Person 1 in the example I gave earlier, or a rapist) that right as well.

      “Do you think people are born homosexuals because if you do you believe that murdering homosexuals is okay.”
      I don’t understand, what do you mean?

      http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/Abortion/ABORTION%20(2).pdf
      Is this the correct link?
      If so, I want to ask: is it the methods that you really care about? I mean, if there was another method for an abortion, that didn’t involve tearing the fetus apart or burning it with salt (which is rarely, if ever, used nowadays, as is the case with many of the methods listed in the pdf), would you be in favor of it? Or is your opposition to abortion fueled by something else?
      Also, if this is what is scaring you, it’s important to keep in mind the fact that it is unlikely a fetus can feel pain at the time these abortions are performed. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/

      • N.E.S.

        Posted by N.E.S. on August 21, 2015 at 07:30

        Christians are not pro-choice, and of course I want all laws to correspond with my beliefs. I also am for separation of church and state until an extent.

        You are welcome.

        The man is dependent just like the mother is dependent to fulfill their desires.

        Homosexuality, abortion, and transgenderism never bring forth life. No it is not a determining factor of your relationship, but a blueprint called the Bible tells us what a relationship is. Matthew 19:4-6 tells us what we need to know. There is no such thing as same-sex “marriage’ it is just a figment of the imagination, and it is a mockery and a counterfeit of real marriage. You are guaranteed in most cases to have a horrible life growing up as a kid without a mother and a father, and I bet most kids would not want to be raised by two people of the same-sex if they knew what homosexuals do. They would most likely to prefer to stay in an orphanage.

        The problem with abortion is that it takes a human life for convenience, and they use terms like “special rights”, “terminate”, “fetus”, and “consent”. If you do not want someone to do something you are not forcing them. It sounds like the mother has a special right to slaughter her child for convenience, and they have no logic.

        The evidence for God is knowing Him, Bible prophecy, and history. You cannot tell me that for Zeus and Allah.

        That is called convenience, and when you terminate the pregnancy you do indeed murder the baby. When you kill the baby you also harm the baby, and they both bring pain even if the pain is not equal.

        There are only four differences between a baby in the womb and a baby outside of the womb which are size, level of development, environment (location), and degree of dependency. Inside or out of the womb we still depend on things.

        Thank you, but I missed a lot of play time with him or her.

        Of course I care about the methods, and the wicked practice. I am never in favor with abortion in any case. In some cases babies feel pain, and they fight for their life that is being stripped from them because of the convenience of the mother. I also love all the children that God made, and I hate it when people take the child away that’s why I am against it along with the Bible as a guide and logic.

        Links:
        http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=h-iJQ92BwTU

    • rainbowuni

      Posted by rainbowuni on August 17, 2015 at 20:17

      Okay, so…
      First question: I’ve been assuming you would like abortion to be illegal–am I correct in assuming that?
      If not, I don’t think we disagree as much as I thought…
      But if so, and your reason is “because men are fallen and can’t make decisions about their bodies, only God can do that,” I ask, would you be in favor of passing laws simply based on a particular religion’s teachings?
      If so, I volunteer Pastafarianism as tribute.
      If not, and you are in favor of freedom of religion and separation of church and state, then this is not a valid reason for making abortion illegal–you’re allowed to believe it, but you can’t dictate other people’s lives with it.
      ” God hates the hands that shed innocent blood! He hates abortionists…”
      Are you sure your God (who is supposed to be all-loving, correct?), hates abortionists?

      ” Some women are partially responsible… example: A woman gets black out drunk, does drugs, she is in a club, with sleaze balls, perverts, and pigs, dressed immodest then she gets raped.”
      So, wouldn’t it be fair to say that all women are at least partially responsible for rape, just because they are women and men can’t control themselves?
      Sure, women probably shouldn’t do things like the above, simply for their safety, just like they should probably learn how to defend themselves, for their safety…but it’s not their fault if they go out and get drunk or don’t know how to defend themselves–the actions of someone else are not their fault, are they?

      “Rapists are worthy of death, and we also should forgive.”
      Forgive and forget kill?
      Can I ask, what gives you the right to kill one of God’s creations, that God specially knitted and whatnot? If you can forgive the rapist, and God can forgive the rapist (correct?), why are rapists worthy of death?

      “you know how the man takes away the woman’s freedom because it makes him happy, the mother takes away the babies freedom because it makes her happy.”
      The difference is, the woman is not dependent on the man’s body in the way a fetus is dependent on the mother’s body.
      Referring to the Person 1/Person 2 example I gave above, what gives Person 1 (or the fetus) the right to take away Person 2 (the mother)’s freedom for their own happiness/life? Either way, the way you see it, one person’s freedom is taken away–either the fetus’ if the mother chooses to abort the pregnancy, or the mother’s if she isn’t allowed to abort it.

      “If the fetus to you could be proved to be a 100% human (even though it is already) would you still agree with abortion?”
      Refer to my comments on personhood and Person 1/Person 2 above.
      To answer: yes.

      “America is based off of the family: 💑➕💒➕💋 ➕ (👦➕👩)=👶=👪
      The LGBT community is now trying to change this”
      Yeah, those darn gays, trying to get married and have kids of their own. How dare they. How dare they not bother anyone with their consensual relationships. How dare they potentially adopt orphaned children. How dare they be happy.
      HOW
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrngYNGNeE
      DARE
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhaihBGD2tc
      THEY?!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVEmHcz-SBs

      …Okay, in all seriousness, I’d first like to know why you think America is based on family (especially when you said a few paragraphs up that America certainly wasn’t the safest place for babies), and why you think that families must include one man and one woman, as well as a (only 1?) child–and nothing else is a family?

      I’m watching Frank Turek’s video now, even though it’s pretty long.

      But I’d like it if, if you have time, if you’d watch some of my favorite videos:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYDdsgDmS-w
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I57QIxxSfu4

      I’m always willing to change my mind when presented with a good reason to (in fact, it’s really not even a choice for me–my mind *is* changed when it has sufficient reason to change).
      “This is also salvation pending so make up your mind or I guess you already have. I hope you don’t get offended, but I love you enough to tell you the truth.”
      I hope you don’t get offended either, and if you were offended by anything I said I’m sorry, I just like discussions like this, I find them interesting 😀
      But I appreciate that you care enough to want to tell me the truth. I’d like to do the same for you (and I’d like to be able to do it without offending you or anyone else, of course, because that’s not my intent):
      Unless you have some revolutionary new information that I haven’t seen (in which case, again, I’d like to see it and maybe my mind would be changed, you never know :D), there’s really no good reason to believe a lot of the things you’ve been taught (like God, for example). There’s not any evidence to support a claim such as a god existing, and there’s no reason to believe “faith” is a valid or reliable way of determining what is true.

      I couldn’t find the pdf…
      Watching some of the videos though…some comments I want to…comment on:
      “Why can a woman kill a fetus, but not take medication that might harm it?”
      Well, first, as far as I know, she can take the medication–she just, by law, has to be warned of possible consequences, by the doctor, by the pharmaceutical companies, etc.–especially if they want to avoid a lawsuit.
      Second, to harm someone but not kill them–just to leave them to suffer…can we agree that torturing someone and letting them suffer is worse than just killing them immediately?
      “Why is it not up to the individual about owning slaves?”
      Because people have the right not to be owned. Owning a human being and not wanting to have your body used by someone else are completely different issues.
      “When does life begin?”
      Even if we said it began with fertilization, the fetus does not have a right to use another person’s body without their consent.
      Besides that, if you say life begins at fertilization, you’d have to account for all of the fertilized eggs that don’t implant (an estimated 30-70% of fertilized eggs don’t implant in the uterus, and therefore never even get a chance to become an embryo), as well as all miscarriages, many of which happen before a woman even knows she is pregnant…if you want to call abortion “murder,” you’d have a lot of women guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
      “Why should there be fewer abortions (of the unborn are not people)?”
      I don’t care if you want to call them people or not–but I want less abortions like I want less appendectomies: because if there’s a way to avoid needing a solution by avoiding the problem (for example, an unwanted pregnancy), I want to avoid the problem.

      • N.E.S.

        Posted by N.E.S. on August 18, 2015 at 11:46

        Some athiests are against abortion. Here is a video with statistics:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VzkvW68sSiQ
        I am in favor with seperation of church and state, and freedom of religion. I’m voicing God’s opinion, and I’m not dictating anything.

        God hates the sin and loves (John 3:16) and hates the sinner (Psalms 5:5). He can do both.

        No human deserves to be raped, and my point is not to only blame men. Women (not all) are only partially responsible. God did not knit a rapist or a sinner in the womb. Rapists are worthy of death in hell.
        The man is dependant on the women’s body to fufill his pleasure like the mother is dependant on the babies body for her pleasure thus removing that child.

        Homosexuals cannot have children and there is no such thing as same-sex “marriage.” They shouldn’t adopt they just are a counterfeit of a mom and a dad.

        America is based off of the family, and the family is beneficial and productive for our society. Families should include one man and one woman because that is God’s design, and He blessed marriage then he gave women the blesssing of a child. America is not safe as is used to be for women, men, and children with the abortions, rape, molestation, and riots.

        I watched the videos, and those people are not homophobic. Those people who agreed with abortion just confused me with their logic, and no one is forcing anybody.

        I’m glad you like discussions like this, and the reason why I believe in God is because the evidence for Him is creation.

        If you can’t harm the baby why is okay to kill the baby? I lost my brother or sister because of a miscarriage, I hope I see him or her in heaven. They did that to Jesus they tortured, mocked, whipped, stabbed, hung Him, and He died. Jesus shed His blood already so no more has to be shed especially the blood of babies.

        Do you think people are born homosexuals because if you do you believe that murdering homosexuals is okay.

        I really want you to look at this link:
        The link below has a PDF on abortion and you will find the PDF press enter scroll down and look to the left
        http://officialstreetpreachers.com/Main%20Page.html

    • rainbowuni

      Posted by rainbowuni on August 14, 2015 at 11:40

      “1% of abortions is because of rape and 3% of pregnancies a mother’s life and a child’s life is at risk.”
      “60,000,000 babies have been murdered”
      Using these numbers, 600,000 babies have been murdered for being the result of rape and 1,800,000 babies have been murdered for health-related reasons. My question is, if your arguement is that a woman consents to pregnancy when she has sex and therefore abortion is unnecessary, what about these situations? Does she consent to pregnancy in the case of rape? Does she consent to death by consenting to pregnancy?

      “What about the baby’s rights?”
      What about the mother’s rights?
      Can we agree that all humans, after they’re born, have (or should have) equal rights?
      -If so, can we agree that it’d only be fair to give a fetus these same rights, and nothing less and nothing more?
      –If so, do I have a right to use my mother’s kidney without her consent after I’m born?

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271
      Also, here’s a study that says abortion is safer than childbirth. Do you have another, preferably more recent study that suggests otherwise?
      “I guess it is just a matter of location.”
      I can’t say I know what you mean by this….less people die from having an abortion in places where it’s legal?

      “Society also tells women what to do…Why not tell them something for abortion or slaughter?”
      I think we should tell them something about abortion: that it’s their decision and no one has a right to make a choice about the woman’s body but the woman herself. Who are you–and who am I–to make a decision about someone else’s body?

      A couple more things you could say society tells women: it’s your fault if you’re raped, and it’s your responsibility to have and (stay home to) raise children and put your children before anything else…

      I will look up Scott Klusendorf, though, if you think he’s really that great 😀 *preparing to have mind changed*

      • N.E.S.

        Posted by N.E.S. on August 17, 2015 at 06:48

        I guess it isn’t recent, but I learned that they have stopped doing studies on the death rates of abortion compared to childbirth. So… yeah, and my point is people die because of this wicked practice, but I guess more in the past. 😞

      • N.E.S.

        Posted by N.E.S. on August 16, 2015 at 21:07

        All the babies that have been murdered are more than Hitler’s Mission, WW1, WW2, and the Vietnam War combined. Also you are saying that you aren’t more likely to die having an abortion… http://afterabortion.org/2000/abortion-four-times-deadlier-than-childbirth/. This is not recent, but many women in 1972 died because of abortion. Do you know why these women die? Because they aren’t equally cared for like the baby. I’d die any day for my child rather than slaughter my baby whether in the womb or outside of the womb!

        We consent to having a child when we have sex, and I’m not saying abortion is unnecessary. I’m saying that it is WICKED. That is basic biology that we consent to offspring when having sex. Yes when we are pregnant we consent to many things, like how we consent to many things when we aren’t pregnant whether you like it or not. The difference is rape, but you still kill the child that God knitted in your womb for convenience.

        What I mean a matter of location is this. A baby is full term and the mother wants the baby aborted. Another baby who is one month years old and the mom is breastfeeding the baby and is outside of the womb. Is the baby who is inside the womb less of a human to the one month year old baby outside womb?

        The baby’s rights, and the mother’s rights. The same rights that the baby is supposed to have is the same rights the mother when she was in her mother’s womb is supposed to have, also when you were in your mother’s womb it would be okay to crush your skull, chop up your head, suck you out, then sell your body parts, throw you in the trash, flush you down the toilet, etc. All because of convenience and the excuses ‘I am not ready for a child and I got raped” when both of these women can get help just like the women who is prepared has help.

        That is why I said this about the baby requiring the women…

        “Disabled humans rely on things like help from a friend, family members, technology, etc.
        Babies or what you call fetuses do the same thing.
        Is a disabled person less than another healthy human that’s outside of the womb?”

        You also said “–If so, do I have a right to use my mother’s kidney without her consent after I’m born?” Look at what I said above…

        Someone does have a right to make a decision about the woman’s body. Do you know who that is? That is GOD, men are fallen that’s why you support abortion, it is your fallen nature. He made that decision that abortion is wrong with the following “and hands that shed innocent blood…” God hates the hands that shed innocent blood! He hates abortionists… Psalms 5:5. I am also a child and a servant of the Most High God, and that is who I am to tell that woman this. I find my identity in Christ. In Ireland many women have their babies there, and they say Ireland is the safest place for babies. 😄 It’s is obviously not America… 😐

        Society does tell women that they are responsible for rape, but that is not true. Some women are partially responsible… example: A woman gets black out drunk, does drugs, she is in a club, with sleaze balls, perverts, and pigs, dressed immodest then she gets raped. If she did not do that was she more likely to get raped or not. Women need to be sober and not hang around men in some cases. Like in some colleges the parties, the girls, the boys aren’t even virgins then they get STDs then someone gets preggo or raped. There are women in Middle Eastern countries that get raped though, but they usually don’t do that, but I don’t agree with rape in any case, some women just love showing their bodies and other things. Rapists are worthy of death, and we also should forgive. I do agree with a women taking care of the babies at home while the father earns the dough in the house. Lastly about the rape… you know how the man takes away the woman’s freedom because it makes him happy, the mother takes away the babies freedom because it makes her happy. If the fetus to you could be proved to be a 100% human (even though it is already) would you still agree with abortion?

        America is based off of the family: 💑➕💒➕💋 ➕ (👦➕👩)=👶=👪

        The LGBT community is now trying to change this: https://youtu.be/z3YmHAIgVfg

        I appreciate that you are willing to change your mind! 😄

        This is also salvation pending so make up your mind or I guess you already have. I hope you don’t get offended, but I love you enough to tell you the truth.

        More links:
        http://officialstreetpreachers.com/Main%20Page.html (They have a PDF on abortion)
        http://prolifetraining.com/about-us/speaking-team/scott-klusendorf/
        https://youtu.be/BdIRRkM71tQ
        https://youtu.be/wvC0zFi43rg
        https://youtu.be/Q_s6RG2vSvE

  4. rainbowuni

    Posted by rainbowuni on August 13, 2015 at 12:43

    I’d like to call this, “A Commentary on a Commentary on Abortion.” 🙂
    So, for anyone interested…
    -If a woman takes extra precautions to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, is she still consenting to a pregnancy?
    -If someone makes a choice to get in their car and drive somewhere, knowing the risks involved, are they consenting to death in a car accident?
    -If someone makes a choice to exist at all (and by that I mean to keep living day after day), are they consenting to any violent crime, illness or tragedy that may befall them, simply because those things happen and they are aware that it happens?
    -If a parent makes the choice to be a parent, and to always care for their child, and that child becomes ill at any point after it’s born, and needs an organ transplant, should the parent be forced to donate their organ to the child (considering they’re a match)?

    If your answer to any of these questions is “yes,” can you explain why?
    If your answer to the questions is “no,” fabulous, we’re on the same page.

    Now, the problem is, a fetus, up until a certain point (usually around 26 weeks, though in some (rare) cases it can be as early as 20 weeks) is biologically dependent on another human being to survive. This is a biological reality.
    If a mother does not consent to her body being used in this way, she has a right to say no. The fetus, unfortunately, will not be able to survive if she does that, but that is not the mother’s fault. The mother didn’t choose to have science and the biological process of pregnancy work that way. This an unfortunate biological reality.

    If you cannot force a woman to donate her organ to her child after it’s born, you can’t force her to donate her uterus before it’s born, correct? Because doing so would be giving special rights to the fetus–that is, the right to use another person’s body without their consent. If you give a fetus that right, why not give it to anyone and everyone else?

    “By taking away that child’s life, the parents effectively remove his or her right to a life choice in order to fulfill their own.” This is true, however, by fulfilling the fetus’ right to life, the right of the parents–or, at least, one of the parents–has been effectively removed if they do not consent to the pregnancy. So the question is, who is more important? The mother who only wants to exercise her right to her body? Or the fetus, who, though they’ve done no wrong, wants to live at someone else’s expense?
    “And at what point does a baby have a right to a choice?” Even if we grant the child this right from conception, it still does not have the right to use another person’s body without consent; no one has this right. Can we agree on that?

    Also, can we agree that abortion is equally bad (in the view stated in this article) in the case of rape, and therefore there is no reason to make an exception in those cases as the fetus has, again, done no wrong and we shouldn’t “punish” it for the mistakes of it’s parents?

    If so, would you say that an abortion done in order to save the life of the mother would be okay, despite the fact that you’d essentially be punishing the fetus for the mistakes of the mother? Because the mother consented to pregnancy by consenting to sex (that *is* the position of this article, correct?), did she also consent to the consequences of pregnancy–including, but not limited to, pain, injuries, health risks, and even death?

    Now, a word of advice: if you want to lower the number of abortions, you need to do more than just support the mother after she gets pregnant. That’s definitely something you should be doing, but if you want to prevent the pregnancy to begin with, education is key. Honest sex education (as opposed to abstinence-only education) has shown to be quite effective at lowering the number of abortions in the area–as well as promotion of birth control use (and access to birth control). Just some food for thought.


    Now, I have to ask, if God is the author of life, we can determine that no one ever gets pregnant without God dictating it, correct? Meaning that no pregnancy is an accident, or a mere “consequence,” and is actually a crucial part of God’s divine plan, correct? So (and I’m sorry if this is a stupid question, I genuinely don’t know the answer), why would God’s plan be contingent on the “consequence of a sinful decision?”
    –Another (possibly stupid) question: If God didn’t want the fetus to die, why not allow it to be able to survive without the mother before 20 weeks–that way, the unwilling mother would still be cheated of peace (as well as a relationship with her child), but her decision would have no negative affect on the innocent child God created and wants to live? Why not perform a miracle right now (or, you know, 40 years ago) with the technology to easily and safely transfer a fetus from an unwilling body to a sort of incubator?